Henrik arrives from the Reception Area.
Luyer says, "Hi..."
DW waves, back so soon?
Luyer says, "Almost 2am, just got home :)"
DW thinks squid should never interfere with a date....
Luyer says, "Yeah but a bad night ice skating can mean I'm not up to much of a 'rest of the night'"
Luyer says, "So what's up for discussion tonight - a big todo list?"
DW: http://squid.nlanr.net/Squid/Devel/todo.html
Henrik says, "Hi"
You say, "howdy"
DW . o O ( hm, anyone else coming? )
bertold arrives from the Reception Area.
Luyer says, "we have 4.... a record for the Moo?"
DW thinks it is a record
bertold says, ""Good evening ! ;-)""
You say, "so, has everyone looked at http://squid.nlanr.net/Squid/Devel/todo.html recently?"
Luyer says, "Looking at it now"
You say, "first, let me know about anything you think should be added"
bertold says, "On some day the Devel directory could not be accessed... :-|"
Luyer says, "You got anything about DELAY_HACK on there?"
Luyer says, "I know of a few people using the UWA delay patches but incorporating something into the standard sources would be nice"
You say, "DELAY_HACK falls under 'resource limits', see http://squid.nlanr.net/Squid/Devel/Todo/9703121.txt"
Henrik says, "I was off. looking at the todo list."
Luyer nods at DW
DW thinks that resource_limits might be a squid-2.0 task
Luyer says, "ummm, what's the current feelings on changing the debug macro?"
bertold says, "debug: maybe another squid-2.0 task?"
You say, "I can change it for squid-1.2, but I still haven't been shown proof that it is horribly inefficient"
Luyer says, "I don't know that it's that bad now, but it would be clearly better if changed and surely can be called quite often and not log anything in some situations"
bertold says, "and what about that FTP PUT stuff?"
Luyer says, "DELAY_HACK is something currently quite important to UWA and Murdoch, but it's quite easy for me to maintain the patches as a local version"
You say, "If nobody has any more additions, then lets start assigning priorities..."
You say, "how about a scale of 1 to 5, 1 == high priority, 5 == low?"
DW: Customizable cache replacement policy?
DW guesses nobody cares about this one...
Luyer says, "What exactly is it?"
bertold  asks the same...
You say, "now Squid uses just LRU replacement.  Maybe you want to remove bigger objects instead of smaller ones?"
You say, "Or you want to remove least-frequently-used objects i"
Henrik says, "I think LRU is good enought. Other methots tend to require lots of CPU... (sorting)"
You say, "Or you want to remove Old objects, without knowing when they were last accessed."
Luyer says, "low priority to me - 3"
bertold says, "I say: 4"
You say, "we still have to sort, just what is the metric for sorting?"
DW gives it a 4, moves on...
bertold says, "Q: is it worth dealing with objects greater than the max object size? I mean partial storing ... (HTTP Accept-ranges ...)"
Luyer says, "oh - big problem with squid I just remembered and hasn't checked recently - getting localhost/stats/objects still effectively lock it up for half an hour?"
DW adds localhost/stats/objects to the todo list...
Luyer says, "it used to do that on big (say 8G) caches, I assume it still does if you haven't changed it"
DW changed it in the NOVM version to printf() everthing to disk, then serve the disk file.
DW: Automatically adjust the number of dnsservers needed?
Henrik says, "I don't see what the problem is in having a large number of dns servers from the start..."
You say, "If you're starved for memory, they compete for VM"
bertold says, "The problem is the size (for me)..."
Luyer says, "not particularly important but more so than the previous one - 3"
DW gives it a 3
bertold says, "I would like something more general..."
bertold says, "Ok, I agree with 3"
Luyer says, "I think redirectors should be done similarly"
Luyer says, "If they aren't already"
You say, "Maybe I should ask which you thinkg are the most important items"
Luyer says, "I'd put FTP PUT as relatively important"
DW translates "relatively important" as 2
Luyer says, "and HTTP/1.1 persistant connections"
DW . o O ( oh, the easy ones :-) )
Henrik says, "I agree (FTP PUT and then persistant connections)"
bertold says, "I would like to see squid as an HTTP/1.1 compliant software :-)"
Luyer says, "swap directory reshaping doesn't matter to me right now but I'm sure it does to many quite often"
Henrik says, "And one of the simple ones: change cachemgr "reload" to expunge..."
bertold says, "on the list many user requested the swap directory stuff."
Luyer says, "I still prefer newfs/mkfs as a way to reshape the cache :)"
bertold says, "HTTP/1.1 handling became crucial since apache 1.2 will be released in the near future..."
Luyer says, "We have about 20G of peers, we put the existing cache data in as another peer or just drop it - but others see it differently"
Henrik says, "What parts of HTTP/1.1 is most important? With respect to caches and current support in browsers."
Luyer says, "for performance, persistant connections"
bertold says, "I think: persistent connections are the most important"
Luyer says, "then there's any important headers to consider"
bertold says, "But: think of Accept-ranges, the Vary headers, the Content negotiation stuff"
Henrik says, "We already have persistent connections issue..."
Luyer sees dropping hit rates when he heard of all these new options passed from the browser to the server
bertold says, "and the nasty state managament..."
Henrik says, "Content negotiation unfortunately requires a gread deal of redesign of squid-basics."
bertold says, "I don't think that HTTP/1.1 means dropping hit rates... E.g: for example if squid could store Vary lists ...."
Henrik says, "What is the RFC for HTTP/1.1?"
bertold says, "2068 as far as I remember"
DW: 2068 
Henrik says, "Thanks"
bertold says, "and I think Pipelining could helpful as well."
You say, "so who wants to help on coding HTTP/1.1 persistent/pipelining connections?"
Luyer realises his RFC mirror stops at 2000 and thinks he needs to find a new site to mirror off :)
bertold says, "OK :-)"
bertold says, "And what do you think about support for downstream caches?"
DW asks for explanation of downstream caches
bertold says, "I mean proxy caches responsible for a specific domain. A client requesting a page in a specific domain may request it thru that server..."
Luyer says, "already possible isn't it?"
bertold says, "Ok, I see..."
bertold says, "When I mentioned this, I thought of the new response header in HTTP/1.1: called 304 Use Proxy"
You say, "depends if youre talking about caches (which may already know) or other clients which probably don't know"
bertold thinks that his idea is a low priority idea ...
Luyer says, "transperant proxying and policy routing can do it at the moment on incoming requests"
You say, "I propose that we start trying to implement HTTP/1.1 connection stuff in Squid-1.2.  I'll clean up what I've been working on for 1.2 and make it available."
You say, "I'm not particular intereted in doing FTP PUT.  Is anyone?"
Luyer says, "I am but am unsure about having the time to do it :("
Henrik says, "I would like to do it, but I probably don't have the time right now."
You say, "okay."
You say, "anything else we should talk about?"
bertold says, "just a question..."
Luyer says, "external data filters?"
Henrik says, "A note about "write logfile to process". I think this can easily be done today by turning off log rotation and using a named pipe."
Luyer says, "ie - java/javascript/activex/virus scanning... too much for squid?"
You [to Henrik]: either a named pipe or a fork/exec to the process
bertold says, "On one side we can use filtering out some HTTP headers, on the other side there is a proposal about per client traffic ..."
You say, "I'm not a big fan of content filtering.  If its going to be implemented then it will have to be some kind of external process"
bertold says, "I don't like that virus scanning flame on the list :-|"
bertold agrees...
bertold hates OSes with viruses (i.e. M$), likes Linux ;-)
You say, "My preference would be that 1) it be a totally separate hunk of software that you stick in front of suqid"
Henrik says, "I think that content filtering is best done outside of Squid.. it requires a lot of work, and needs to be updated frequently."
Luyer says, "external content filtering would probably mean one process per request (ugly) or something with a bunch of external processes each handling file by file "validation""
Henrik says, "I think that the most practical implementation is a separate proxy with squid as parent..."
You say, "I think one of you should go write a content filter and get rich selling it to other folks"
bertold has to leave for 2-3 hours, but would like to help and please send a summary to the squid-dev list as well
DW acks bertold
Luyer says, "the advantage is that it lets people develop code to support PICS, virus scanning, etc, etc, - everything that everyone else seems to want"
bertold says Goodbye
bertold idles: real life intrusion
You say, "someone will come up with this product eventually..."
Henrik says, "If I am not wrong it already exists."
Henrik says, "I don't remember the name."
DW wouldn't be suprised
Luyer says, "It exists but is painfully slow I believe"
Henrik says, "And you think that Squid could do a better job? Content-Scanning is a intensive job."
You say, "well, its probably slow for what its trying to do, not how its implemented"
Luyer says, "It probably forks a "content validator" for each file passed through it"
You say, "Squid would need one such process for each active connectiong I think"
Luyer says, "maybe"
Luyer says, "possibly not"
Henrik says, "A more interesting issue is header-filtering..."
DW . o O ( we already do that )
DW . o O ( oh you mean reply headers? )
Henrik says, "Yes. reply headers"
You say, "yes, that needs to be added soon"
Henrik says, "Especially to filter out "bad" cookies.."
You say, "yes, and there are some HTTP/1.1 things that require it, like obeying the 'Connection' reply header"
You say, "so you would filter out 'set-cookie; path=/'?"
Henrik says, "Most likely. with some exclusions."
DW . o O ( that should break in interesting ways )
DWstarts to get hungry for lunch..... anything else?
Henrik says, "Add reply-header-filtering/rewriting to the todo?"
DW: acks 
You say, "should 'chargen' filtering be hardcoded or in squid.conf?"
Henrik says, "Probably squid.conf.. most people will like to filter out other ports as well."
You say, "okay, shall we end the meeting?  I'll put a transcript on the web site... "
Henrik says, "Ok. I am getting tired ;)"
You say, "ok, see you all later..."